I need help upgrading my PC

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xxplicitt
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I need help upgrading my PC

Post by xxplicitt »

I'm going to using my PC for gaming a lot more so I'd like to upgrade it, especially with BF3, Rage, and Skyrim right around the corner. I'm mostly interested in a video card and perhaps getting up to 8gb of ram but if you have any suggestions feel free to tell me.
My budget will probably be around $150-$200 so I probably won't be able to upgrade everything.


CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Black Edition, 2.8 GHz, 5400+

CPU Cooler: Rosewill RCX-Z940-SL 92mm 2 Ball

MB: ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD

RAM: OCZ Gold 4GB DDR2 (+500mb of random crap I got for free)

HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11, 500GB, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3.0Gb/s

GPU: Radeon HD 4850, 512MB, 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16

Optical: Samsung 22X

Operating System: Windows Vista Ultimate (x64)


Also I'm thinking of getting this headset, has anyone here ever used them?
Logitech G35

Here's my audio info in case it's needed.
Audio Adapter: ATI Radeon HDMI @ ATI RV770/790
Audio Adapter: Realtek ALC1200 @ ATI SB750

Edit: Also I need a new mouse, badly.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by madmattd »

Mouse: G500. Been on sale a fair bit lately on Newegg too for ~$35, a great deal for it. Still good at $50 though.

Looking at your system, the thing that stands out to me is the mismatched 4.5GB RAM. You aren't running in dual-channel that way, which hurts performance a bit. 4GB is usually enough though and I'd not worry about it right now. I have 8GB DDR2 and rarely top 4ish GB total usage unless I have a crap load open and/or am doing CAD simulations.

The CPU isn't great, but shouldn't be too much of a problem for a while longer until you jump to a new socket. Maybe overclock it a bit, that'll give you a nice boost and the blacks are meant to be easier to OC iirc.

GPU-wise I love the GTX 560TI series. Great cards, and are running pretty close to $200 these days with rebates and all. It is about 70-80% of a GTX 580 depending on the OC version you get. Probably the best performance/$ ratio atm aside from maybe a Radeon 6950.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by xxplicitt »

Thanks, Matt. So removing that extra 500mb of ram will actually help improve my performance? I guess I'll skip out on the RAM for now and use that money towards the video card.

The only reason I have never overclocked is because I have no idea what I'm doing and I didn't want to cause any damage to my PC. If anyone could maybe guide me through or link me an "Overlocking for dummies" guide that would be great.

I'm looking at the cards you mentioned and I see that there are many variations of the video card with a variety of prices. Is there something I should be looking out for when purchasing one?
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by madmattd »

xxplicitt wrote:Thanks, Matt. So removing that extra 500mb of ram will actually help improve my performance? I guess I'll skip out on the RAM for now and use that money towards the video card.

The only reason I have never overclocked is because I have no idea what I'm doing and I didn't want to cause any damage to my PC. If anyone could maybe guide me through or link me an "Overlocking for dummies" guide that would be great.

I'm looking at the cards you mentioned and I see that there are many variations of the video card with a variety of prices. Is there something I should be looking out for when purchasing one?
Removing that random 500MB MIGHT improve things a little, I doubt it's going to make a major difference though I've never played with mismatched DDR channels so someone else will have to speak to that. I just know that mismatched channels can do odd things.

As for overclocking, I've never done an AMD really, but with the black edition you ought to be able to lock the CPU voltage down in BIOS and at least get a bump in multiplier. But there's likely more to it than that, I've only ever overclocked a socket 775 CPU, which is cake (FSB and voltage are really all you touch).

Yes there are a lot of 560TI's. Note that the non-TI version is a much different, weaker card, though still a decent one. Pretty much any of the 560TI's will do you nicely, the differences are mainly in the overclock they have out of the factory (the GPU is VERY overclockable...). 822MHz is stock, but 900MHz is very common and a very fast card. I have the 900MHz Gigabyte and it's a great card, my friend has the 950 one from Gigabyte and it's a bit faster yet, but a fair bit more money. It comes close to a GTX 570 in performance though at a fair chunk less $$. The Gigabyte cooler is outstanding both in cooling performance and in silence (I no longer hear fan spin ups like I did on my old PNY 9800GT). The MSI Twin Frozor 900MHz is the other one I see everyone raving about, both in performance and in the cooler. I'd recommend one of those two brands as they have the best aftermarket coolers apparently. The 560TI will play anything on a single monitor situation very well, you will certainly be CPU limited at that point, so you could probably even step down a little but it's the best bang for the buck atm, and has been for about 5-6 months.

The Gigabyte 900MHz one (which I have): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product. $205 after rebate atm. Also comes with a free game atm as well, how nice!

MSI Twin Frozor (880MHz, not 900, my bad): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814127565
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Hell_Rell »

Not hijacking Xxplicits thread but he wanted to compare specs to my pc. I noticed in game (beta) i am experiencing choppy game play and some lag no matter what settings ive changed. Ive changed to smaller windowed resolutions, high settings, low settings. My PC is about 5 years old so i think i might just bite the bullet and upgrade.

Here is the system i have now (i replaced the power supply to a 600watt one and the video card i am now running - Nvidia Geforce 9800GT)

BFG GeForce 9800 GT with EcoIntelligence Graphics adapter - 1 GB - GDDR3 SDRAM
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... tech-specs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6883107654
Processor
- Intel Pentium dual-core E2200(2.2GHz)
Processor Main Features
- 64 bit Dual Core Processor
Cache Per Processor
- 1MB L2 Cache
Memory
- 3GB DDR2 800
Hard Drive
- 500GB SATA 7200RPM
Operating System
- Windows Vista Home Premium
Memory Speed
- DDR2 800
Form Factor
- DIMM 240-pin
Memory Spec
- 1GB x 2 & 512MB x 2
Maximum Memory Supported
- 8GB
HDD Capacity
- 500GB
HDD Interface
- SATA
Audio Chipset
- Realtek ALC 888S chipset
PCI Slots (Available/Total)
- (0/1) PCI slot
- (1/1) PCI-E x16 slot
- (2/2) PCI-E x1 slots

Now here is what a cousin of mine recommended i upgrade to, i was going to try and upgrade what i have now but he said it wasnt even worth it in the long run and that this system would be a better choice:

HP Pavilion Elite HPE-500f $379.99 w/ Free Shipping
http://www.macmall.com/p/HP-Desktop-Com ... dp.giecdja

Operating system installed
- Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64
Processor
- AMD Phenom II X6 1045T
• 2.7 GHz, 4000 MHz FSB
Chipset
- AMD 785G
Memory
- 8 GB DDR3
Memory slots
- 4 DIMM
Internal drive
- 1.5 TB SATA (5400 rpm)
Graphics
- AMD Radeon HD 6450 (512 MB dedicated)
Slots
- 3 PCI-Express x1
- 1 PCI-Express x16
- 1 MiniCard
Power supply type
- 460W PFC AC power adapter

What do you guys think would be the better choice? Biting the bullet and just upgrading?
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Molimo »

Hell_Rell if you have a little bit of cash saved up, I would recommend "Bite the Bullet" and upgrade everything. You could get a few hundred dollars for you current PC. (Easier to sell a Complete PC than parts).

Add me on Steam(Molimo69) if you want a few suggestions on PC Builds. I've done a few this Month(Built PCs), I Might be able to help you out.

Now XXplicit. What Matt said is correct. If you add a 3rd stick of ram, it will cancel your Dual Channel. Which means you are running less efficient.Take the 500mb out and since you already have 4Gb, I wouldn't add more, Not really needed, and DDR2 are a bit pricy. As for an Upgrade, Get a GPU Upgrade. , I would say HD6870, I'm an ATI Fanboy. They are very comparable to the 560TI. but almost 60$ cheaper. (Around 170$)

http://www.hwcompare.com/8890/geforce-g ... n-hd-6870/

Here is a link that compares both cards.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Hell_Rell »

Dont know how to build a PC, but would order that HP.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Molimo »

Hell_Rell wrote:Dont know how to build a PC, but would order that HP.
Sorry, For some reason I did not see the link. Well considering the specs, It`s a really good price, but my main concerns are
1) The GPU (HD6450) is really not a gaming GPU.
2) PSU is 300W, really low, will not allow you to upgrade to a 560TI or something similar. it might be able to handle the 9800GT that you already have though.
3) Case seems pretty air tight. So Upgrading the GPU might cause Heat issues

The HD6400 Series are considered HTPC Cards at best. Their cheap and work great as long as whatever you're doing isn't demanding.

Here it compares it to your 9800GT
http://www.hwcompare.com/10211/geforce- ... -6450-oem/

So in other words, I don't think that PC is really suited for a Gamer. I wouldn't buy it.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Hell_Rell »

Molimo wrote:
Hell_Rell wrote:Dont know how to build a PC, but would order that HP.
Sorry, For some reason I did not see the link. Well considering the specs, It`s a really good price, but my main concerns are
1) The GPU (HD6450) is really not a gaming GPU.
2) PSU is 300W, really low, will not allow you to upgrade to a 560TI or something similar. it might be able to handle the 9800GT that you already have though.
3) Case seems pretty air tight. So Upgrading the GPU might cause Heat issues

The HD6400 Series are considered HTPC Cards at best. Their cheap and work great as long as whatever you're doing isn't demanding.

Here it compares it to your 9800GT
http://www.hwcompare.com/10211/geforce- ... -6450-oem/

So in other words, I don't think that PC is really suited for a Gamer. I wouldn't buy it.
I wouldnt be keeping the Radeon card it comes with, id switch it out with my GeForce 9800GT which is: http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... tech-specs

NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Video Memory 1 GB
Technology GDDR3 SDRAM 256-bit

I also have a 600 Watt PSU in the current PC i have that i changed out myself, i would take that one out and place it in the new HP i linked. Would that still be bad? Even if it came to buying a new Video Card, its a better overall PC for the same price i would have spent on upgrades for the PC i have now.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by madmattd »

Hell_Rell, that would certainly be better, a 600W PSU can power an awful lot, don't believe the calculators out there...I ran a killowatt on my PC a few weeks ago and it draws under 350W FROM THE WALL full-out and I have an old (less efficient) overclocked CPU, a fairly power-hungry GPU, and so on. I have doubts about the 9800GT really handling BF3 though, which seems to be your goal. I had the good-ol PNY 9800GT 1GB and I also SLI'd it for a few months with a Gigabyte 1GB 9800, the one card was just not cutting it for me anymore. The 560TI is twice as powerful as the SLI 9800 config...and about the same price at today's costs. That HP system represents a CPU and RAM upgrade, but that's about it. The GPU is certainly a downgrade.

Personally I'm also a fan of a high-clock speed quad-core versus the lower-clock hex-cores, the faster quads generally perform better owing to the faster clock, and 4 cores is still plenty for gaming.
Molimo wrote:Get a GPU Upgrade. , I would say HD6870, I'm an ATI Fanboy. They are very comparable to the 560TI. but almost 60$ cheaper. (Around 170$)
Well the 6870 is a solid card for sure, if the $200 for a 560TI is too much for you, that or a standard 560 are decent offerings. But the 6870 is not on par with these 900MHz 560TIs, but a bit less. Close but still a bit behind even a stock 560TI, but interestingly the overclocked ones are a little cheaper usually! The 560TI's that I linked come in somewhere between a 6950 and a 6970 in performance. If you are an ATI fanboy, then go for a 6950, I've heard good things about it, I just can't stand Catalyst CC and ATI/AMD's drivers personally.

You both (Xxplicitt and Hell_Rell) are definitely CPU-limited after a GPU upgrade, the glaring need for both of you. RAM is less important, and there is little point in DDR2 upgrades these days beyond 4GB, especially with the price point on them now. Games don't really need it anyway.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

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So we basically just need better cards lol, im still torn over the choice of dumping all the money into a card or spending the $300-$350 i was gonna spend on upgrade to get the new PC. Im sure that PC is a big jump and would allow me to also play other games like Skyrim and the new Bioshock.

My main concern is that if i spent the money to upgrade the PC i have now, it will still be obsolete even more so than it already is. Why not just take the leap into an overall better system and a new card so i dont have to worry next major game release.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by xxplicitt »

I'm highly considering the GTX 560 Ti, especially with the rebate and a free copy of Arkham City which is a game on my wishlist.

Do you think you guys could suggest a compatible CPU for me? I'd like to get an idea on prices. It seem like all I really need are those two things and I would be good.

Should I be worrying about my power supply for these? I have an Antec Sonata III 500, which I'm pretty certain has a 500w power supply.
Last edited by xxplicitt on September 29th, 2011, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by madmattd »

Hell_Rell wrote:So we basically just need better cards lol, im still torn over the choice of dumping all the money into a card or spending the $300-$350 i was gonna spend on upgrade to get the new PC. Im sure that PC is a big jump and would allow me to also play other games like Skyrim and the new Bioshock.

My main concern is that if i spent the money to upgrade the PC i have now, it will still be obsolete even more so than it already is. Why not just take the leap into an overall better system and a new card so i dont have to worry next major game release.
If you have the cash to spare, I'd definitely do a new system, but it'll be a bit more than the price of that little HP. Building a desktop is easy, if you are comfortable swapping a power supply, RAM, and graphics card, you'll be fine. You can save a fair bit on gaming type systems by hitting up Newegg and the like, plus it sounds like you have a decent PSU to start with, which saves you like $75 right there.
I'm highly considering the GTX 560 Ti, especially with the rebate and a free copy of Arkham City which is a game on my wishlist.

Do you think you guys could suggest a compatible CPU for me? I'd like to get an idea on prices. It seem like all I really need are those two things and I would be good.
It's a really nice deal atm. Compatible CPU? Well, they all work, but to upgrade the CPU you are really looking at a new socket (AM3 or 1155 if you go Intel) which means new mobo/RAM in addition to CPU. You might be able to find a decent AM2+ quad core, but those are getting rare now.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by Hell_Rell »

I have no idea how to build a pc lol.
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Re: I need help upgrading my PC

Post by madmattd »

Hell_Rell wrote:I have no idea how to build a pc lol.
It's not hard. You find a case you like (preferably ATX form factor, but pretty much all are now), find a compatible mobo (again, ATX or micro-ATX are most common, the case will say what ones it supports, and a micro-ATX works fine in a ATX case), an ATX PSU (which you might have, 460W is a bit tight but doable), CPU that fits the mobo socket type, RAM that works on the board (DDR3 nowadays), and a video card. Many of us here can help, and I made it sound more complicated than it even is...
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